Bogumiła Delimata, La Bogusha, interviewed by Justyna Żarczyńska
Bogumiła Delimata, a Wrocław-born artist active in many areas of art, travels all over the world sharing what she creates. She lives in Grenada. Although we didn’t manage to meet, the video meeting made it possible to have a unique conversation about the most important things: art and life, because, as La Bogusha mentioned many times, it is the art of living that is the most important.
Painting, singing, dancing, performing arts – you use your talents in many areas. Another talent that is key is that of creation – creating your life and artistic path. What did creating your own path look like in your case? What were the important points or stages on it, starting from your earliest years?
It all started at home. My dad was a violinist and my sisters sang. The starting point is right there – at home. There were eight of us, so a lot. I’m the youngest. It was normal to hear singing throughout life – gypsy life, so to speak – in a good way. Later on, I walked many paths – very long, winding paths… To this day I still walk, because the path doesn’t end until my last breath. As I followed these paths, I began to grow and discover myself. I never had a concept that I was going in a specific, predetermined direction as an artist. I have always had an overwhelming need to explore and process the world. As children we don’t have this awareness that adults acquire. As children we are “pure”, we are clean, so what we perceive, what surrounds us, is also very pure. We don’t judge. Later on, Kraków played a huge role in my life. I was born in Wrocław and as soon as I finished school – photography school, by the way – I immediately moved to Kraków. I lived there for 22 years and I’m still connected to that city, I haven’t lost touch with my land. It is very important to me. A lot happened in Kraków. Those were different times. Kraków was always artistic. Great personalities lived and worked there. You could feel it all. I used to go to various places, for example Krzysztofory – I worked there, I met people… I was surrounded by artists. Of course, being an artist used to have a completely different dimension. There were always problems, we are human, but life was easier. People came together. And when it came to painting, I used to have a fiancé – he was very pretty, like an angel. One time he brought me paints and brushes. He said: ‘Bogusia, paint something’. It was a great act of love. I was always drawing something, and it came from a great need to process reality, the worlds I live in. And it’s still like that today.
And what was it like with dance and theatre?
There was dancing in my family home, so I was naturally drawn to dance. Of course, I had to develop all the time, search, read, take interest, but it was a pleasure. Later on I started to be active in other fields as well: in theatre, in performance… These were the tools through which other doors opened. Awareness emerged. In Kraków, I played Catherine in the Bücklein Theatre in Kraków. I also performed in a shadow theatre, that is Papusza by Paweł Buszewicz. It was a wonderful performance organised in collaboration with Dagmara Żabska. Its action took place on a huge screen on which two shadows appeared. The second set was live. Actually only I was there, which was a very big artistic and personal challenge for me. A lot of things happened… I love theatre. I’ve had episodes in film. I starred in Rojst, among others. It’s impossible to tell everything now. What is important in all of this, however, is your vision of the world, your perception. Some people see the glass half empty and others see it half full. I can say that I see something that you do not see at all. It is very individual.
This is very interesting: there is a beginning, or a point from which you move, there is the question of destiny, but also freedom of choice in deciding what to do next…
I am active in various fields. I think I have been blessed with talents. But nothing comes by itself. You can be born with a talent, but if you don’t develop it, don’t work on it,
you stagnate. Art starts with life. That is the basis.
What does the creative process look like? Each field requires different preparation and conditions. Painting, for example, is something more intimate…
It is exactly like that. Painting needs that muted part of me. Flamenco a different one – the one where the blood circulates, pulsates… Painting really needs seclusion, lots of cigarettes, looking away and looking at a white canvas.
I would now like to ask you about Roma culture. What is meant by this term and what does it mean to you?
For me, Roma is my race, my blood. The Roma have always been very intelligent. In order to survive, they were able to assimilate, to adapt to the surrounding reality. Even to eat hot soup three times a day, they had to work hard. And they have always been a minority. And when it comes to culture, for me that is life. The dancing, the singing, the folklore, the costumes, the earrings – that’s the stereotype about Roma culture. The stereotype about the romantic Gypsy.
Is this, in your opinion, still a common, but at the same time incomplete picture of the Roma?
I don’t know if it is still common. It is said that people don’t know the Roma. But if you drive through Poland and ask around in different districts, everyone has some memories of the Roma. I am thinking of a certain generation. You would hear people say: ‘Oh, yes, I remember when the Gypsies came’! Everyone was waiting for them, because with them came light and life. These are good memories. They were expected, as one expects spring, summer, autumn and winter. Of course, later on there were stereotypes of the Gypsy being dirty, bad and stealing. But for me, this is very distant. Roma have advanced and attitudes towards Roma have changed for the better. The differences between people are blurring. It is a different level. Roma are studying, working, getting professions… Everything has developed a lot, so the situation is very different.
Today there is a lot of talk about identity, about attachment to what we bring from home. People have the need to search for their roots. On the other hand, the idea of the need to open up to the world is being preached, which is actually blurring certain boundaries. A new culture is being created. Are these forces at odds with each other? What do you think this looks like – in general and on the ground of art?
I think it would be good if the two balanced each other out. Because the past and identity are very important. You have to know where you are from and who you are. ‘Who are we and where are we going?’ – everyone has heard that. And, as you say, nowadays the differences are blurring, a new one is emerging, but it would be good if there was a balance in that. Every person needs to do this kind of resumen of their past, because not everything was good in their past. Even in the family. We have both lights and shadows that streak behind us throughout our lives. Sometimes we ask ourselves: ‘Why do I react in this way and not in that way’? It turns out to be about situations from years ago that have stayed with us. We react mechanically and often do not think about why, even though we are not at all comfortable with it. So we have to go back to what was and ask ourselves this question. Then comes the answer and understanding. And you move on, forward. This is how we are able to find a new way of living and achieve balance.
This, it seems to me, connects with what you once said during one of your talks: that your ancestors accumulate in you, that you are not just one person, but you also carry these past generations within you…
Yes, I am many people. I am my grandmother, my aunt and still other members of my family.
And was your family history instilled in you from childhood or was there a moment when you had to delve into it yourself, search for it, because there were understatements and your interest in the subject was growing?
As you get older you want to know more and more. Because you have to clear up all these things, otherwise they won’t leave you alone. Every family has its secrets, its understatements. Some family members remembered, others didn’t. Some wanted to tell and others didn’t. You have to unravel it yourself, have self-reflection and be aware of where you live, what you do, how you interact with people. This is an art. That is why everything
starts with life and not with the concept of ‘I am an artist’.
And how do you see your mission as an artist?
I, my dear, want to give the best to the world. What I have experienced and what I have. To have more colours. We are human, life is not easy, but you have to go on and give the best you have. To share. You can live in a beautiful place, watch the sunset every day in your garden, but if you can’t share that with someone, there is an emptiness.
You’re already responding in this way to my next question about what you want to communicate to the people who come to your classes, because you also run workshops…
I used to organise more of them. I always wanted people to discover themselves through the body, dance and rhythm. I wanted to be in super contact with them. To give a moment of detachment from reality to their dreams. People have a lot of blockages. When I started teaching, I had different women coming to me. One of them called me and said she was in her 40s and worked as a lawyer. She was concerned that maybe she was too old to take a workshop. I replied that absolutely not, because when it comes to flamenco, the older the better. After a year of attending classes, she was a completely different person. Many people think that flamenco is just about rhythm, passion and so on. It’s the same stereotype as the Roma. Flamenco is something very human and deep. Much deeper than just beautiful dress and fire in the dance.
I think if I came to you for a class, you would pick up a lot of blockages…
You know, it’s about working on yourself. You can work in different ways. You can write, you can talk to me, to thousands of other people. There are many forms. You can be a hairdresser, whoever you want to be. And that’s the whole art: that no matter what you do or who you are, you can live, communicate, open doors.
Let’s stay on the subject of femininity for a while. The participants in your classes were probably mainly women? What do women need today?
They were mostly women. Although there were also men and I liked that a lot. It always took a lot for them to break through the barriers. But I know that many really enjoy dancing.
In my opinion, women dominate these days. What do they need? A lot of love. For their children, their husband, their mother, their grandmother… Love in a very broad sense. Love is not a feeling for just one person. When you talk about love, people usually imagine that it is about a partner. And love is tenderness, a form of contact with another being. In this flurry of information, in this rush where everything happens fast, people forget this. Not because they don’t need it, or that they don’t dream of it, but because the world pulls them away from what really makes them and gives them breath, what is most important in life.
And what are your plans for the near future?
This Saturday [the concert took place on 2 November this year – editor’s note] there will be a concert at a very emblematic venue in Granada, the Eshavira Club. Various projects await me. I might fly to Los Angeles again. I am painting. With the collaboration of other artists, I recently did a show that premiered at Alchemia in Kraków. It is called Quantum Experience. I would like to repeat it. If you think about the fusion of different disciplines, that’s where I unified everything, using all my artistic experience. There are also contemporary elements, such as multimedia effects. At the end of January or the beginning of February I may appear in Mińsk Mazowiecki. I am in the process of discussing this, it is not yet fully established. It’s about a play I created with Cristo Osorio, a great artist and a great man. Mińsk Mazowiecki is such a place of mine where I feel at home, where my art is appreciated. I have been there many times. Above all, I would like to do something good for the world. It’s important not to think about myself.
Interviewed by: Justyna Żarczyńska
Photo: artist’s private archive
“Poprzed dym” (Through the smoke) Bogumila Delimata/Cristo Osorio
Funded by KPO. GRANTS 2024. A2.5.1: Programme of support for the activities of entities of the cultural and creative industries to stimulate their development
