Jan Wiśniewski

The music I grew up in…

The question that often accompanies me is when did it all start?

There is no specific date for the birth of music in me. In fact, it was born alongside me. The music of my family, my parents, uncles, cousins and brothers has surrounded me since I was a child.

The music of my ancestors, who wandered around the world in search of happiness and bread.

How did they find said happiness?

The forest people, as we call ourselves, are able to notice the smallest aspects of beauty and joy only familiar to us. It is an intuition they acquired during their endless travels, often around places and good people. Good people who gave them understanding and heart, because they knew perfectly well the taste of the desired bread. They were able to find happiness in what they got, in the gifts of everyday life, and to see the joys that they meticulously gathered like crumbs into a basket of happiness.

The beauty of this world and nature has always been their endless inspiration. The woods full of whispers known only to them, the morning dew that washed the feet of the children, full of joy because the sun had risen. It didn’t matter that they were hungry, they looked with hope in their hearts for the return of their mother and grandmother, who had already gone to the village at dawn for fortune-telling, to fetch the proverbial piece of bread.

Beautiful horses, caravans, feathers, whip, hat and feasting together are all found in songs, dance and stories by the fire.

Forest people can sing everything – love, beauty, pain, tears, joy and fear. In other words, all the emotions that accompanied them every day from dawn to sunset. This is how they are able to talk about life, about worries, troubles, the joy of being together, dreams of a world where there are no tears, where people are free from worries.

Roma’s philosophy is beautifully simple – what is important is today, what is here and now. No one really knows tomorrow or what the next day will bring. But as long as the sun wakes up the day, there is hope for another better tomorrow.

Roma are born, live and die in a beautiful, unique world of magical, musical life stories. The phenomenon of our culture and traditions is that they are passed on from generation to generation, one could say unknowingly – no one particularly thinks or dwells on it. It just happens – because what matters is the here and now.

The colour of the world of Romani music is rich in a variety of shades arising, for example, from the places in which it is created and from where it flows.

Considering the music of Polish Roma, it is already worth pointing out the difference between southern, northern, eastern and central Poland.

The Roma people in the mountains play music with influences of Hungarian and Romanian notes. This is altogether natural, because that’s where they came from, they grew up in that culture. Playing for a profit, for non-Roma, you can often hear Hungarian czardas or Romanian lautari (fiddle) music there.

Of course, the Roma in the south also have their own ethnic music, which is completely different from the music they play outside for money. Even the instruments they use in their music are surprisingly different. For example, clay pots/pots or cans for milk used as drum instruments. This is music characterised by a specific rhythm and vocalisation. This is the kind of music they play for themselves, and they do it really thrillingly well.

North and West in the Romani sound, it’s a music with a Polish touch, that is – extremely tuneful violins and harps, as well as melodious accordions or catchy guitars, so characteristic of the Polish Roma.

On the other hand, as far as the eastern wall is concerned, it is difficult to ignore the historical aspect here, which has had a huge impact on the character of the work of the Roma from the east. It is a completely different musical composition, a different dance (“Serbian”, “Moldavian”) and different romances and stories. These differences are a direct result of the aforementioned historical aspect, namely the change of borders of the Polish state. It can be said that our Roma ancestors always wandered to live simply in Poland and thus brought with them all the musical heritage of other lands, other cultures.

The centre of Poland is already a truly colourful musical workshop of the Roma. We have all the genres of our heritage here. Here we find folklore bands involving the best people of music, songs and dance from all over Poland. That is why it is so easy to find here hints of music-making from the south, namely the aforementioned string instruments and dulcimer, often in the excellent company of accordion, harp and guitar, which in turn are so characteristic of the west and north, and all this beautifully clothed in a hint of eastern stories, dance and romance.

It is impossible to mention all the bands and musical groups, but the “Roma” band and the wonderful soloist, Randia, cannot be left out. They are certainly the showpiece, the inspiration and the absolute foundation of Roma musicians. Their work has had and continues to have a huge impact on the development of Roma music in central Poland.

It is also hard not to mention the Roma who practised music for a living, playing on the streets, in restaurants or weddings. It is no secret that, of course, the greatest opportunities for work for the above-mentioned group were provided by the large cities of central Poland.

I was born in central Poland. I was born here and brought up. I grew up, precisely in this excellent current of phenomenal mix, one could say from the four corners of the world, but at the same time a current that unites all the Roma of Poland and the whole world, that is, art based on conveying the truest emotions and feelings flowing from the depths of our souls and hearts.

I was fortunate to grow up in a real Romani family, where tradition, culture and music formed one inseparable whole. My love for music awoke very quickly and invisibly. It was actually my natural environment. I remember exactly the day I saw my cousin Marian playing the guitar. His thin fingers were playing melodies so familiar to me. I don’t remember what song it was, but his performance grabbed my heart so strongly that I can still remember the chords. I was less than nine years old at the time, and Marian? It may seem unbelievable, but Marian is four years younger than me. You could say that music really does flow through our veins. It’s a great gift that the Lord God has given to the forest people.

It was that moment, that one moment. I was stunned, I wanted that too. It became my only thought, an obsession, even a self-possession… I went home, told my mother about what had happened. My dearest mum, in secret from the whole world, bought me a guitar the next day. My uncontrollable childish joy and overwhelming amazement at getting my first ever guitar were so great that today I can say with full responsibility that it was the most beautiful day of my life. The most beautiful day of a nine-year-old for whom there were no more barriers. I could do anything!!! I remember the strong and unique emotions that gripped me. And this is how my adventure, learning and life with the guitar began.

My learning to play the guitar was a constant going and peeking at older cousins and uncles. On more than one occasion they would chase me away. They just had enough of me because I constantly wanted to learn something new, discover new chords, rhythms, melodies.

The guitar became my love and music became my passion. So slowly, yet very quickly, it became an inseparable part of me.

The kind of music I create, play, love and appreciate is a consequence of being brought up in a family honouring old traditions and principles, of which music is an essential part. In a family where customs and traditions are sacred. When asked, for example by an uncle, at the table to play or sing, one had to thank all the elders for the honour. It is a whole set of behaviours, etiquette at the table, where respect for the elders is crucial – father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, uncles and aunts. Respect is as important as hierarchy. There is a whole procession of behaviour, kissing the hand of the elders (both men and women) and greeting all the rest of the fellow guests at the feast. This, of course, teaches respect and modesty and, above all, is a great lesson and testimony for young people and children.

And it is the family feasting together that so unmistakably and intuitively teaches us our choice of repertoire. It is the Family that is our first critic and reviewer. It is here, at home, that we can afford to make mistakes so that we can take our audience to the other side flawlessly later on. The audience has many expectations, and we forest people intuitively and flawlessly know how to read these expectations. We play different music during the day and different music at night, different music when people want to forget themselves in the dance, different music when people want to take an active part and have fun with us by singing, and different music when people flow with the music into their dreams that allow us to release trapped emotions.

That was my childhood – growing up in the midst of tradition and music. Later came the times of rebellion – rock, blues, but my Roma soul wouldn’t let me play any other way. Playing blues in my first school band, “Gipsy Company”, it was always the Roma nature that prevailed.

I remember my high school days and the enormous fascination, curiosity and even pride of my teachers who allowed me to promote the music I love so beautifully. It is with great affection that I recall today a Polish language teacher who invited me to perform in her graduating class, in order to introduce to the graduating students a classmate from her first class who plays and sings music that is completely different from the music that was popular and available at the time. After performing the first song, the professor asked what I was singing about, as the music and emotions were understood, but the words in Romani were not. From that moment on, I understood that a verbal commentary is very important for the listener, but also for myself, because it allows me to reach the listener’s sensitivity in depth. This is a great lesson that the outside world has given me, which I didn’t get at home, because there, at the family table, everyone understands each other, you could say, without words.

My path so far, as I have already mentioned, has been for a very long time watching, imitating and constantly drawing from others, but above all it was all about searching for myself, my inner voice and sound. Finally there came that time, that day, when I started to understand it completely differently. I started playing my own interpretations and finally creating my own music.

Making your own music is vibrant, sometimes unpredictable and very much linked to inspiration. The biggest inspiration for me is, of course, life. Its glories, its shadows, its experience and its taste. I can also be beautifully inspired by the harmony of sounds that surround me from everywhere, sometimes by the light, or a room full of magical acoustics, by the audience that I take with me, seducing myself. That’s when the magic happens, I light the eyes – the windows of the soul – with thousands of fires. The emotion that fills not only me but also all those who attend this performance, the truth that touches the most sensitive strings. This allows one to free oneself, to become a part of the music.

Is this something that can be learned? Is it always so magical?

Well, no. You can perform music perfectly, read the notes perfectly. It will be beautiful music, but it will not have that indeterminate something. That something given from heaven. And here’s the interesting thing – it can be something different every time. The same piece that lives on stage changes because of different inspirations. This is the difference between true artists, even those only by passion, and musicians beautifully practising their profession.

Listeners, audiences, all of us want the truth. It is the truth that captivates us. When on stage, I feel a bond emerging between me and the audience. It’s a beautiful sign. A sign of real emotion.

The music that defines me is romances and ballads. It’s a difficult musical genre where, above all, unique emotions come into play. It’s a marriage of music and words. Beautiful, unexpected comparisons. It’s something that can squeeze out a tear of emotion. Romance is the art of conveying simple content. The discovery of obvious truths. All this together – it forces you to reflect, to look within yourself. This is why romance is so close to my heart. The music I create is a kind of exhibitionism, exposing my soul, my inner self, my own sensitivity.

Making songs in old, even archaic forms, is my mission. To save from oblivion everything that is most important in Romani culture and music – the truth of emotions, lovely, poetic lyrics, ways of making music with traditional instruments. Creating those new-old songs that come to me, not knowing from where. When a sound gives birth to a sound, and another one, and another one. I follow them and create harmony, finding the original joy.

The fulfilment of a musician is to find oneself, to find one’s sound, which will only be assigned to them. It’s important to hear your inner voice. To have a sound is to understand the essence of music. When we meet artists who captivate the audience, taking the audience along with them, they give them all these magical emotions.

Jan Wiśniewski

 

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Interview with Wiktor Dymitrak

 

 

Wiktor Dymitrak, fot. Ada Szulc

Ada Szulc: You are a very young man and you already have specific achievements. You’re a musician, a winner of the National Scholarship Competition for Talented Roma Students, and what’s more, you come from a family with traditions, as the son of a well-known musician, Mirosław Dymitrak. Does the fact that you come from a well-known ‘musical’ Roma family
make your life easier, or is it a difficulty, a conviction to music?

Wiktor Dymitrak: I think coming from a family of musicians makes life easier. It’s certainly easier to get through to people, especially in our Roma community. Dad is recognisable among Roma for musical reasons. When I was young, even when we went to visit family or go to Roma parties, everyone always said that I played the accordion, that I went to music
school and so on. And I hope that this makes me recognisable to the Romani people. So that’sdefinitely an advantage.

I’ll elaborate on this topic: your Dad said he had this dream of you continuing his work. Andin such a context: is it a difficulty or a convenience?
I will definitely continue my Dad’s work, because inside myself I feel that this is my only path in life. If it wasn’t for Dad, if it wasn’t for his decisions when I was young to enrol me in music school… Fact, sometimes I didn’t want to practise. Sometimes I didn’t want to play the accordion, sing or whatever. And then my dad forced me quite often, especially in primary
school. And today I’m very grateful to him for that, despite everything. Definitely in this context it is also a convenience. I am very thankful to my dad for pushing me in all this. Hopefully going forward.

You’re interested in hip hop and rap. Are you going to go in that direction?
It’s a controversial issue between me and my dad at the moment… I think that because of my young age hip hop, R&B and soul appeal to me the most. If in fact one day I could break through to a bigger audience, hopefully into the mainstream, then I would prefer to get into more soul or R&B. I enjoy singing more than rapping.

And what is your favourite instrument and why?
Well it would be silly if I didn’t answer: the accordion. I’ve spent my whole life playing it really. Definitely the accordion. If I had to choose, let’s say in the evening for pleasure, what I would play on, I would probably choose the piano today. Right now, I’m in the mood to sit down and enjoy it rather than play. On the accordion, however, it’s an effort to carry it around and so on, so the piano for pleasure. And the accordion for life.

What is your favourite musical genre?
Definitely R&B and soul. To put it another way, I love all music in general, leaving out one genre. Don’t want to say out loud, but everyone knows what I mean. I listen to everything. Recently I’ve even started to listen to the classics. When I go for a walk it’s mostly Chopin on my headphones, so I really like everything. But most of all R&B and soul.

Apart from playing, do you compose yourself, create arrangements?
Yes, I compose on my own. I compose music in general, meaning backing tracks for myself. I write the lyrics. On the accordion I also tried to create, but I didn’t feel it. I didn’t feel it in such a way that I could do it on a daily basis. It didn’t quite get to me somewhere.

In addition to your musical career, we know that you also have achievements in another field: you have won the title of Mister Jaworska Land 2018 – do you have any plans connected with this? Do you want to become an actor, a model?
I’m currently making some extra money as a model. I don’t pursue it on any high scale. Although I have been thinking about going into it completely, I found that I didn’t quite fit in with this environment, this community. I might do it more in terms of making a profit, maybe as a hobby.

What is your biggest achievement?
The biggest achievement for me… This is quite a deep question. Everyone measures success by their own measure. I for one am proud of knowing what I want to do in life. I can be proud, because many people don’t really know the reason why they are on this Earth. And when it comes to specific achievements, certainly this ‘Mister’ title and the scholarship from
the Minister of the Internal Affairs, which I received several times at the competitions in Łódź. Those are the main things.

Who would you like to play a concert with?
Who would I like to play a concert with? Oh gosh. It depends on the style. If I were to rap it would definitely be Malik Montana. If I were to perform in a singing style it would be Roy Woods. I think Roy Woods the most, because I listen to his albums a lot now. And instrumentally it’s with my father, which is not today yet, but in a while, I guess you could say. We haven’t had a concert together for a long time.

What are your dreams and plans for the future?
Future plans include music, of course. Only and exclusively. And the dreams for the future…
I’ve always dreamt of having a big happy family. All in all, those are kind of my two goals in life: music and family. Nothing more concrete really matters. I’ve never dreamt of making money, yachts, villas and so on. In short, I dream of a wooden cottage in the mountains with my family and a peaceful old age.

In Poland?
I don’t know. As long as it’s warm.

Interviewed by Ada Szulc from the “Dom Kultury” Foundation

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Interview with Mirosław Dymitrak
Mirosław Dymitrak, fot. Małgorzata

Ada Szulc: You are a distinguished promoter of Roma culture and an outstanding musician. You live and work in Legnica. What are the beginnings of your career?

Mirosław Dymitrak: The beginnings of my career… At the age of 4 I was already playing on a stick with strings made of rubber bands. Those were the beginnings of my playing. But as an artist: in ‘83 I got my professional credentials as a musician and singer. I played at dances, parties and weddings until 1983. And in ’84, already as a performer, I worked with Roma groups, such as the band “Roma”. At the turn of 82 and 83, I created the band “Nowa Roma” in Legnica. This group was later taken over by Estrada Poznańska and the name “Roma” remained. I played in the band as a regular member, because at that time I didn’t have the right training to lead a band. Those were different times than now. I worked in various bands until 2000. Now I’m a bit old, but I’m still playing. I’m still trying to do something, but it’s more of a hobby than a professional thing.

What is your favourite instrument?

The guitar is my instrument. It is a well-known fact that in the old days we Gypsies didn’t go to music schools. Everyone learned on their own, by themselves, and one from another, as they say. I didn’t finish music school, but by working on myself, I acquired all the professional skills. So first the guitar, and then other instruments. I started to learn to play keyboards. And even before that, I was dancing, so I’m also a stepper. Plus the bass guitar came along. I don’t play drums, but I have tried in the past. Generally my instrument is guitar and vocals. Vocals are also an instrument. It makes a sound, doesn’t it? Anyone can sing, just not everyone can be listened to…

And do you often tap dance?

I used to tap dance, step. Because what does tapping mean? Tapping means that you have to be physically fit all the time, right? It’s exercise, skipping, and running. A person has to exercise all the time, jump, so that there is lightness. I don’t run anymore at this age. I do a bit of stepping – I haven’t forgotten, but I lack lightness, good stamina. And my figure is not the same.

Is it possible to find your tap dance performances somewhere online?

The last time I performed was in 2017 at a concert with Miklosz Deki Czureja, a well-known Roma violinist and with his children, Sara and Mark Czureja. There were many performers there, including me on guest performances. I tap-danced there and the recordings of this concert are probably somewhere on the Internet. When I came there, I thought I was going to play and sing, but Miklosz said no – I was going to dance. So I said, ‘I don’t have the right shoes’. He lent me his own. Those shoes were tight. Also it was hard for me, but somehow I managed.

To what extent is Roma identity important in your work?

In 2011 I set up a foundation – it was called “Lovers of Roma Culture and Tradition”. The foundation lasted only 5 years. I gave up due to lack of funds. I was investing more than we were getting from projects at the time. It was hard for me, because exactly where I live, there are no people willing to cooperate. I am a fan of our culture, the old culture with principles. I would like for our tradition not to die, to live on, because there are some really cool things in it. You can learn a lot from it. I am a supporter of the old Roma rules and traditions. Tents, bonfires, music, singing, wine. No women.

What are some of your most important achievements in the field of activities promoting culture?

My greatest achievement is what I have created with my own hands. When I was 23 years old, I took on a really powerful challenge by founding the “Nowa Roma” band in Legnica. The Community Centre provided us with a hall where we held rehearsals. I brought people from different cities, they slept on the floor at my mother’s house. Sometimes we slept in the rooms of the Community Centre. In those days it was really something amazing. And it was all my hard work. I think that was my greatest achievement. There were 25 people in the band, we had a whole programme prepared. We didn’t have only costumes. And the concert! There was one concert of this band. The reminder I have left of it is a cassette recording. Then Estrada Poznańska took us over, giving us costumes. And immediately we went on to give concerts. But as for other achievements, I toured with various Polish artists. I had a concert with Edyta Górniak at the beginning, when she started her career, nobody knew her and we didn’t even even knew she was our blood. I played with many artists who worked on stages such as Estrada Poznańska, for example, with Jerzy Słota, who is a member of the former “Vox” band and lives in Legnica. He is acolleague of mine. I have given over 1000 concerts in my life. For me there is no stage fright. And it has been my greatest achievement that I have worked on stage for so many years. I’ve met a lot of people and I’m happy with that.

Who would you like to play with?

That’s a tough question. Many of the musicians I knew from the last century and who worked with me have unfortunately passed away or left. But I think the kind of musician I want to play with is my son. Wiktor has already finished secondary music school. He plays the accordion and makes his own music, rap, hip hop, something like that. He writes lyrics. I hope that there will come a point when he’ll take up Roma music, traditional music and start his own band in the future. He’s capable of forming a big folk band at a high level.

What are your plans, dreams for the future?

Dreams… My dream is to live till I know that my son has already taken up music seriously. For him to take over my inheritance, in the sense of cultivating the Roma tradition, for him to start a band. Our culture is dying out, disappearing. Children no longer speak Romani. They are ashamed of the language at school, in the street, they avoid it. I would like this to change, so that Roma children won’t be ashamed of their identity. We are all who we are, we all have our own culture and I think there is a lot of good in every nation. It’s about making sure that our culture, our gypsyness, doesn’t disappear… precisely by means of events such as this one today (Wandering Festival “Romani Kultura”: Wrocław 2023). Look how many children have come here… They are getting to know each other today, and maybe they will meet again next year. And this is it. Today Roma have dispersed and have no contact with each other at all – between towns, between even courtyards. They live as if they are locked into this present system, which means a mobile phone, a laptop, television and nothing else. It‘s also my dream that Roma culture will not disappear, I would like to be sure of that. And I would like my son to promote the tradition so that I can see and hear it.

AS: Thank you very much and I hope your dreams come true!

Interviewed by Ada Szulc from the “Dom Kultury” Foundation.

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Interview Ada Szulc with Roksana Stojowska and Stella Pawłowska
Fot. Małgorzata Brus

Interview with Roksana Stojowska and Stella Pawłowska about the intercultural integration assistantship for Roma matters and Roma education assistantship.


Ada Szulc: You’re Roma activists and intercultural integration assistants, you live and work in Wrocław. What’s a Roma education assistantship and why is it important?

Roksana Stojowska: The assistantship is primarily about supporting and accompanying the Roma community in difficult situations, but it is also useful in promoting our culture or supporting various events that aim to break stereotypes about us. We as assistants want to meet the needs of our community. It’s very important to be well prepared. Stella, who today is an intercultural integration assistant, herself has the experience of a protégé and today draws on that experience in her work.

Stella Pawłowska: From the very beginning I actually had difficulties at school. The fact that Roksana came to my school and worked as an assistant helped me a lot. There were various interesting projects that I could participate in. The teachers also looked favourably on the fact that there was such a person who helps Roma children. My studies went better and I even got a red belt (certificate with distinction). I’m a person with a medical condition, which was an additional difficulty. Thanks to the fact that I had a Roma assistant who helped me in secondary school, we were able to find a school that suited my needs. A school that, with my illness, was more suitable for my level of learning. It would have been hard for me in a normal school, a ‘mass’ school. It has really given me a lot. I had scholarships, which motivated me more. I also got a laptop and went to half-term camps. That bears fruit. I grew to like studying very much. Now, as an adult, I’m still studying at the High School for Adults, at Cosinus.

Do Roma education assistants have to be Romani?

Roksana: This is most welcome. It is important that Roma education assistants are accepted in the Roma community. Roma children need to have a person from their community, to whom they can turn to. This creates more understanding, a sense of security and adequate support when it comes to culture. We assistants are the bridge between teacher and pupil, between the parent and the school. We are able to explain the cultural misunderstandings that exist on both sides and integrate these two worlds, which are in fact one world. This is also about emotional support, about Roma parents’ awareness of how important education is. The Roma community has a sense of security when there is a so-called ‘own man’ at school.

What is your role at Nomada as intercultural integration assistants? (“Nomada” Association for Multicultural Society Integration)

Roksana: At Nomada we’re in a team that is multicultural. We are part of the community that functions there. All the tasks are very similar to each other. We’re only beginners, because we have only been working in this team for two weeks, so we ourselves are really preparing for this job. We are focusing on the needs of our community. Our community, that is Roma, Belarusian, Ukrainian and, in fact, I could say from all over the world. We want collectively to be one voice for the needs of our communities. To support each other with experience, solve problems together. To be a supportive and active group for each other, visible primarily in Wrocław. Both me and Stella, as intercultural integration assistants for Roma affairs, want to focus on the Roma community from Ukraine. We don’t yet have a good understanding of the situation. We are getting ready to go to Warsaw to talk to other institutions about these experiences and organisations. We want to be prepared to support this Roma group as well. We’ll be integrating with Warsaw organisations and talking about support for the Roma from Ukraine. Warsaw has a lot of experience and we want to benefit from it.

Stella: Intercultural integration assistance is also about guarding the Roma against racism. The Romani people don’t know a lot of things, they don’t know their rights, and that’s one of he things we’ll be helping them with.

Do you need any special training to be an intercultural integration assistant?

Stella: Actually, I don’t think any special preparation is needed, although it is clear that you you need to learn a lot.

Roksana: It’s worth mentioning that Stella has undergone an internship at the Provincial Office in the passport department. Stella chose this course herself in order to develop in administrative work. This skill at Nomada is very useful, it helps, among other things, with the ‘paperwork’ that Roma families have to face. For example, how to fill in applications that cause difficulty… Stella has no problems in this area, due to the fact that she has undergone this internship. Nomada Association is also a place of development for us. It supports our development. We benefit from this on an equal footing with other participants. It’s a place where we will develop and expand our skills.

Stella: I don’t have the same wide-ranging experience as other Nomada activists, and yet I have been welcomed very warmly. I didn’t feel like I didn’t know how to do anything. The Nomada people help me to develop and gain experience.

Thank you for the interview, I wish you good luck, success in your work and in helping others.

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